first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I did a little reading and it was suggested for home defense these were the best choices for a pistol and shotgun.

Mossberg 590 with an 8 round magazine and a Para-Ordnance P14.454uses 5ACP cartridge,

Does this sound like a good choice? Can someone lead me to the online store with the best prices. How much ammo do I need to buy?

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

It will probably just as inexpensive to purchase locally since if you order online you will have to pay shipping and FFL transfer fees. Plus, you get to handle and try the firearms before you buy them.

A Mossy 500 should be a good shotgun choice. The Remington 870's are in about the same price range and are descent shotguns too. Either should work.

As far as handguns go I would recommend, at the very least, going to a gun shop and handling a whole bunch of different ones to see what you like. If possible have friends take you to the range with them so you can shoot their firearms. Also, take into consideration what you will use it for. An ideal handgun for home defense might not be the same as an ideal handgun for concealed carry.

Don't forget to get a rifle! :)

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Cheesy Mossy video....

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eOPuEuJx1MY&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eOPuEuJx1MY&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

That cabage looks like it hurt.

:D


-1

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I bought the 870 for home defense.

I took it out and shoot it a couple of times and now it sits behind the door where all shotguns migrate to.

I then bought a Pistol and have shoot it much much more and have many time the enjoyment from it.

Can't argue with a shot gun as far as stopping a threat in your house. However if I were to start over I would get something more portable and that I would use enough to be completely at ease with its safety's and such.

I recommend from my own limited experience get a pistol and shoot a lot. They have the advantage pf being extremely portable and can do the job required in the Home protection need. Also precision is available if there is a hostage situation and you have to make a head shot around your spouse etc.

I would also recommend a 9mm as they are significantly less expensive to shoot, offer high capacity, and limited recoil for the new shooter this may or may not be important.

This advice is based on my own experience and your needs may vary.

Cheapest place online seems to be Budsgunshop.com. I would also recommend you buy your first from a bricks and sticks retail source. If you have problems you can usually get better service from them. They also have a selection to choose from that will be a benefit when it comes to general size and weight issues.

More smack talk from the Amish

E-A

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I will :dito: what E-A said, and I will add one thing. The 9mm offers you the most stopping power with the least likelihood that you will penetrate walls IF you use the right cartridge. Choosing ammo is JUST as important as choosing the firearm. You want to get Federal Hydrashock for indoor use. For street/car use (CC) you want to get Federal Tactical Bonded.

My wife and I have Kel-Tec PF-9s for carry guns. They are among the absolute smallest 9mms, and they only cost about $255. If you AREN'T going to carry concealed regularly, then get the Glock 19. It has a double-stack mag and has been duty-proven over and over.

Shotguns are nice, but it is a lot harder to sneak around a corner with a shotgun and NOT get disarmed. If you really want a shotgun, then get a Saiga 12 (12-gauge AK). If you have buck to burn go with Tromix.

www.budsgunshop.com is a GREAT place to shop. Also check out www.rrarms.com and my favorite auction site www.gunbroker.com.

PS - Prepare to get a TON of opinions... GIMmers feel more pationately about guns than gold/silver!

http://www.rrarms.com/cat_images/GPF9.JPG

http://www.rrarms.com/cat_images/GPI1950103.JPG

http://www.tromix.com/images/8inchLage3w.jpg

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I have to agree with you. I find my shotgun boooooring!

They are fun if you skeet shoot though.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I was going to try to get a recommendation in before the AK crowd showed up...but..ahem...but SLV beat me to it. :D

Can't go wrong with either the Mossy or Rem 870. Time proven designs. One thing to consider though is a semi-auto shotgun for a quick follow-up shot. Easier to make under pressure.

Handgun, same thing. In this situation, I'd suggest a DA in .45 for stopping power, loaded with Fed Hydra Shock ammo.

I think you may want to consider the semi-auto shotgun and DA handgun especially if someone else, husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/significant other cohabitating in the same domicile aren't very familiar with guns. The semi-auto will be easier for them to handle and in the case of the shotgun, they'll stand less chance of short cycling.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

The Mossbergs and Remington 870's are both good shotguns as others have stated.

.45 caliber 1911-type weapons are coolguy guns and heavily promoted by the Cooper Troopers. If you want to be a coolguy then by all means get one. If you just think 1911 style guns are the cat's meow, get one. In practical terms though you're paying a lot more for no real benefits. The coolguys will tell you the .45acp cartridge is a veritable deathray, and it is... but only in the speculative fiction found in gun magazines or posted on gun forums. In real life the only thing that kills badguys is shot placement and any of the service calibers will penetrate deep enough to be deadly. No, having one caliber instead of another or having one bullet type instead of another will not allow you to miss more. I know something about this because I've shot a lot of different stuff with a lot of different things.

Another thing to consider is grip and gun size. The .45 is a big, fat round. Even in a single stack it will impart some of those characteristics to the gun that shoots it for obvious reasons. Doublestack .45's are even more that way. This can cause issues with carry-ability, comfort and shootability depending on the individual. Finally there is the issue of cost, .45 costs twice what 9x19mm does. Guns are cheap, it is ammo that is expensive. You will easily burn up the cost of the gun in ammo just learning to shoot it well, and you'll spend even more keeping those skills up or learning some new skills on a tactical range.

Since the subject of performance always comes up here is what you can realistically expect out of a .45, .40sw or 9mm stoked with any one of a number of quality defensive hollow points... a hole the size of your thumb bored straight through to a depth of about 12 inches. No magic. The only difference in real world performance you'll get from these is 9mm's offer more compact guns or the highest capacities and will penetrate steel barriers the .45's and .40's will just dent and bounce off of. Capacity and performance against barriers are good things in real shootouts. The first because with a moving target firing back at you while you are highly stressed you are going to be missing a lot for every hit you get. Also consider that more than half of all violent encounters involve 2 or more attackers. Sometimes the mere presentation of a gun will send them running, sometimes it doesn't. The second because a determined marauder might very well be shooting back at you from behind cover.

I'm not saying .45's suck, they don't. Just be aware of the practical realities of the situation instead of being duped into buying something on hype just because somebody else thinks its cool.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

A good arguement for going with a .45, especially if jaima is living in an apartment or condo where wall penetration is a consideration.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I love the 590, prefer it to the 870 by a longshot. I shoot skeet with it too, pretty funny when you are the only guy on the line with a parkerized gun.

if you are not going to practice regularly, skip the 1911-45 setup because it has a lot of switches and stuff and if you're under pressure you dont want to be fumbling with controls.

if you arent going shooting regularly, get a revolver. KISS. and if you must have an autoloader get a glock.

I dig on .45. Veritable deathray, no, veritable flying ashtray, yes.

oh and do yourself a favor and learn how to use them and secure them from people who arent proper users. like kids and angry girlfriends. LOL

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

It's really a function of ammo: Federal Hydrashock fragments quickly for minimal hard surface penetration and maximum soft tissue damage. Federal Tactical Bonded penetrates steel/glass with minimum expansion while still providing hollowpoint performance in soft tissue.

I still think the smaller size, lower recoil, higher capacity, and lower cost of the 9mm ammo makes it a more practical caliber.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

WOW!! Thanks for all the info. It will take a while to read, digest and research it. We already have a 22 rifle. Most everyone is agreement on the Mossberg being a good choice but obviously I need to reconsider the Para-Ordnance since there seem to be more suitable and less expensive choices. Ill check some of the links posted and some local gun shops. Then ill need to learn to shoot one.

Im not a fan of guns. I have never shot one and hope I never have to. Still it would be stupid at this point to not own a few and educate myself on how to use them.

Some of you are posting ammo is getting more expensive and harder to find. Is this a sneaky way of the Government implementing its own form of gun control? Even though I am not a gun enthusiast it seems that criminals will always have them and tougher laws will only keep them away form people who obey the laws.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Yes, and most houses and apartments are not made out of steel whereas cars, USPS drop boxes and other things commonly found on the street often are. What defeats steel are two things, relatively small frontal area and relatively high velocity. The reason why is heat, steel is often defeated by melting through it, not actually punching a hole. Anyway, none of the service calibers have any trouble penetrating more drywall and stucco than is reasonable with most FMJ or JHP loads. Bullet design is the primary factor in whether a given round will overpenetrate or not. This oldie but goodie is always worth another look.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

Or reach for the shottie. Once the pattern has opened up a little any individual pellet will penetrate less and do less dammage than a pistol round, depending on shot size to some extent of course.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

NRA offers a BASIC firearms course...

The class will help you familiarize yourself with different types...and let you shoot them.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Killing people isn't exactly cool, that's for sure. Oh, if you're young and unrealistic you might look forward to a violent encounter of one sort or another to prove your manhood. After going through a few it either looses its luster or else you're unhinged mentally. It's one of those unfortunate necessities that may eventually come up. It's a good thing to be able to resolve the situation without hesitation or second guessing yourself, it's a bad thing to enjoy it. Heck, enjoying it doesn't even make you any better at it, usually worse. Real professionals maintain a certain professional detachment. People who are too wrapped up emmotionally in the event will find their emmotions detracting from their performance.

No, the government is overt and hamfisted in its attempts to disarm law abiding citizens. The increase in ammo prices and shortages are mostly to do with three factors. One is plain and simple runaway inflation, probably the reason you're on this site to begin with. Another is that a war is on for better or worse and a lot of ammo is being diverted there that would otherwise hit the market. A third is that the ATF is being overt and hamfisted in their bratty games about approving Form 6's for importing ammo.

The lesson to be learned here is buy your ammo when you can afford it and it is available. Whether you're an enthusiast or not you'll need it, and to do you and your family's safety and wellbeing justice you'll need a whole lot more than you think is reasonable just for practice. Plan on burning up 1,000 or 2,000 rounds to get your skills up and a couple hundred rounds per year thereafter to maintain those skills.

The good news is that shooting guns on the range is not the same thing as shooting real people so it is much more enjoyable. If you think about it most of the most popular sports are about putting a projectile on a target, though often with not as much precision. This is true of football, volley ball, baseball, tennis, pool, soccer, a whole lot of others.

If you want to think outside the box a little and understand that you will be spending real money on practice you could potentially save yourself some money by investing in an airsoft or paintball gun. This wouldn't be for or replace basic range marksmanship but is good for other practical drills like drawing and firing good enough to hit a badguy in a critical location. It also opens up a whole world of force on force training opportunities. If you just want to give yourself a fighting chance have a gun and develop your basic marksmanship. If you want to heavily stack the odds in your favor so you have a very good chance at coming out the victor in the unfortunate event of having to defend yourself for real then you are going to want force on force practice and that can't be done with live ammo.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

:applause_:applause_:applause_

A very intelligent and mature statement.

Wish ya well jaima.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

A gun is a tool, as a hammer is a tool. It is the most effective tool for personal defense. You will have to shoot one if you expect to become proficient with that tool. I expect your attitude about them will change if you take a basic handgun safety course and learn how to use that tool. It is a very empowering experience, and, dare I say, fun! Sure, nobody wants to have to ever be put into the position of having to use that tool to defend themselves, but would you rather assume the role of unarmed victim?

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I've been around a firearm or 2 in my day.
Mossberg 500...good choice...also think about a 20 guage versus the old 12. less recoil and more than enough punch....use a mix of triple 000 buck and slugs..
I love Sigs...they are dependable and accurate...the p-226 in 9mm with a mix of radical hollowpoints and Glaser safety slugs for home defense. BUT...you need to be familiar with the weapon...intimately familiar. If you are not a gun pro...one gun a lot of people overlook for home defense is a good old revolver 2 inch barrel.
Best home defense revolver round IMO is 44 special...big heavy slow bullet. It will knock a man down but not penetrate too many walls, etc. And just remember to use good radical hollowpoints and/or Glaser safety slugs....they are phenomenal..another tidbit of info....frangible ammo (compressed metal dust) will penetrate level IIIA body armour all day long...hmmm

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

How about the best of both worlds. The Taurus "Judge":

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imag...-410L1side.jpg

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="97%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=detailTitulo style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px" vAlign=center align=left height=24>PRODUCT DESCRIPTION </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=left>The "Taurus Judge ™ " is so named because of the number of judges who carry it into the courtroom for their protection. Capable of chambering both .410 2-1/2" shotshell and .45 Colt Ammunition, this amazing combo gun is ideal for short distances - where most altercations occur, or longer distances with the .45 Colt ammo. We have finally tuned the rifling to spread the shot pattern at close quarters or to guide the .45 cal. bullet to the target. Fully customized with fixed rear sights, fiber optic front sights and Taurus Ribber Grips®, the "Taurus Judge" is one decision-maker that lays down the law. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Promo video here: http://www.taurususa.com/video/tauru...udge-video.cfm

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

i have one .. wish i would have bought a semi automatic shotgun instead. they're so much faster, and easier, not to have to manually load a shell every time ya shoot. but they're also more $$$, naturally.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Yep, and buy often while you can ~ build an arsenal.

Minimum of 1,000 rounds per gun and keep stockpiling after that.
If you can buy extra cylinders or speed loaders by all means get half a dozen to start with. :wink:

FWIW - a hi-cap auto pistol is an excellent choice + a dozen mags....

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

1) Own a dog, a small terrier is a great watchdog, always alert and vigilant.
2) Reinforce your doors, make it difficult or very noisy for someone to enter without keys. You might consider a brace to have some entry resistance beyond your doors and locks.

3) Do you have a locking, reinforced hallway door? Most don't. A good idea especially if you take no other action.

Guns:

A double-action revolver allows you to use many different forms and strength ammunition. CCI makes shotshell cartridges for.22lr, .38 and .44 revolvers. You might find some for .45acp. Probably harder to learn to shoot double action than semi-automatic (self-loading pistol).

I would buy a .22lr auto pistol, probably a Ruger Mk II with bull/target barrel and learn to shoot at an indoor range. If money was not of consequence I would buy a basic 1911a1 commonly called the Colt .45auto and a .22lr conversion kit. Practice with .22lr to learn sight picture, trigger control, grip, stance. Then move to target/low velocity ammo for the .45. Buy 4-5 spare magazines and a couple of good holsters.

If you own and can shoot the .45auto, you don't need a shotgun.

If you want a gun for your wife, buy her a .45auto if she can cycle the slide and shoots yours halfway decently.


If you want a shoulder fired weapon, you want a rifle. A Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle is handy size and length, easy to operate and loaded with hollowpoint ammunition will not over penetrate. An AR-15 is better. A .308 Winchester or .30-06 is a general purpose rifle capable of taking almost any game animal in North America. A hunting rifle is not a defensive weapon, but you can hunt with a defense rifle. A defense rifle is made to fire many hundreds of rounds per day and remain accurate. This quality and durability increases the cost of the rifle.

You want versatility and power from your firearms, otherwise you will need a variety of firearms to accomplish the different tasks you might require done. For pest control and small game hunting a .22LR pistol and rifle is ideal, but you might find a spring-piston .177 pellet rifle/pistol to be almost as useful. Being able to pack 500 pellets into a couple of sq inches and obtaining very fine accuracy makes them worth consideration.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

You might think about a Makarov. This was the 8 shot eastern block service and police pistol for many decades. Slightly less powerfull than a full power 9mm, but enough to do the dirty job in most all cases. The pistols are solid steel compact very reliable with few parts and switches and fit more people's hands than those built for bigger rounds. Usta be able to pickup a unissued Russian one and 1200 rounds for under two bills.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I use a Russian Makarov for my carry piece. It is unbelievably accurate and stone reliable with any ammo. It is a very good little gun, I carry mine in my front pocket.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Get down the gun range and shoot a bunch of guns that you think might be suitable. One of them is bound to suit you and your own personal ergonomics. This is the best way to make a decision...

Semi-auto pistol is the way to go... revolvers are somewhat safer, but lack the capacity.

9mm, .357SIG or .40 (357SIG preferred but a bit more expensive on the ammo) will suit you just fine. The reason I say .357SIG is the recoil to me is akin to a 9mm, but has a much higher muzzle velocity. Say a P226R or similar. You can even go for a Glock sub-compact in .357SIG if you are looking at carrying.

There will be a bit more recoil in a sub-compact but because it is so light and concealable, you will be more likely to want to carry it than something the size of a service pistol, and it's perfect for close range engagements and a quick draw, as you might face on the street or home.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

I'm not sure if it is a top pick for a non-enthusiast on a bang for your buck basis but I am extremely interested in the .357sig. For years the .357mag has been one of my favorite handgun calibers and expanding that level of performance into an autoloader of decent capacity is very tempting. If somebody was making sabots to go from .357 to .30cal I'd definately make the switch. You could load it like a 9mm for cheap practice, as a .357 for defense or hunting and with the saboted .30cal bullets for an off the shelf solution for a modern double stack 7.62x25.

Heck, that is tempting enough I might be willing to make my own homebrew sabots! That also makes me wish Kel-Tec would make a Sub-2000 in .357sig. All it would require is a barrel change, they already make a .40cal. .357sig is probably the perfect round for that carbine.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Dude

You've got to get you a Camera.

Making you own saboted rounds would be very interesting to see.

>357 Sig barrel is one of my buys for my 40 M&P this year some time. After the Laser Grip and the Shoulder Holster. The Gurus at the Range love that caliber for its flat shooting characteristic's.

Sub-2000s are fun. Shot my friends quite a bit. Could see a flatter shooting bullet making a big difference at 120-150yds.

E-A

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Glock 24 with 6 inch .357 Jarvis barrel...SMOKIN':smokin::smokin::smokin:

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Didn't realise you could convert these to .357SIG, the Glock 24 starts off as a .40 calibre doesn't it?

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Yeahhhaasss!

Any Glock .40 will take .357 barrels factory or aftermarket. And vice versa, 357=> 40. Makes for more versatility. You can even use the same mags...:applause_

G27 (40) will take a factory G23 (40), G33 (357) or G32 (357) barrels, etc.
G23 (40) will take factory G32 (357) barrels, etc.
G22 (40) will take factory G31 (357) barrel, etc.
G35 (40) will take factory G24 (40) barrel, KKM, Jarvis, BarSto, EFK, Lone Wolf, etc.
G24 or 24C will take KKM, Jarvis, BarSto, EFK, Lone Wolf in 357, etc.

Lots of interchangeability! Extra barrels are available here:

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/

http://www.kkmprecision.com/custom_p...rrels/home.php

http://www.barsto.com/

http://www.topglock.com/catalog/barrels.htm

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

First pistol for a non gun owner should be a .22LR caliber...get a Ruger. Next pistol for around the house and useable by your wife or kids is a .38 revolver with a barrel no longer than 4 inches. Simple revolver is perfect...5 or 6 shots are enough....don't need a 16 shot autoloader....too complicated for novice under pressure...wife can use one.....most gals cant rack the action....a lot of people have difficult time with load/unload. Simple revolver is best....can't beat double action for safety. My favorite is a 5 shot hammerless .38 with a 2 in barrel. Easy to operate and hard to take away in a struggle due to small bbl length.

If you want a long gun in the home, 12 ga pump, I prefer a remington 870. Use no shot larger than #4....too much penetration for houses made of wood and drywall...don't want to shoot through walls and kill your kids and the neighbors...

In general, needing a gun for protection is a fantasy...very low probability of needing one...but if you need one....you better have one.

Biggest risk of guns is having your kid or his friends get a hold of it. You can also come home and get killed by your own gun...if someone broke in and finds it ...and you come home....

Get a $50 hotel type safe....bolt it to floor or wall - they are easy to poen with a few key strokes...can even do in the dark if you keep the number pattern simple. Either take gun with you or have it in the safe....no other place should the gun be... This is a problem for a shotgun.... solution: only have one box of ammo around...have the rest off-site or well hidden. Keep shells in safe when not in gun.

Just get a simple revolver.

Most gun advise on this forum is not pratical...or over-kill.... lots of bad advise. Keep it simple and pratical.

If you are a firearms expert....then their are lots of options...but most folks are not experts and lots more think they are...but are not.

I've carried a gun on my person for over 20 years....best carry gun is a small semi-auto pistol of 380ACP that fits in front pocket. Light weight and flat profile. You can carry one of these everywhere - all season...even summer. If it requires a holster...you probably will not carry it all the time....this rules out just about every other pistol you can think of... In winter weather (big jackets...) you can carry just about anything...summer is the challenge. In winter put a .38 revolver in your coat pocket. 90% of the time I'm in public, my hand is in my coat pocket with my hand on the gun....100% of the time when I walking too/from my vehicle.

380ACP is minimum gun to do a good job of man-stopping (killing)...bigger is better....but back to carry problems.

I live and work in Flint and Detroit Michigan....you are a fool to not have a gun on the streets around these parts...

One more thing to think about - a lot of folks say get a .357 or a 44 spl or 45 ACP....these are all awesome, powerful pistols....but ask any of these folks if the have ever shot one at night without hearing protection.....if you do, you will quickly give up 2 key items needed for night time gun fighting....ability to see and hear...muzzle flash from these guns (esp .357) is so great..... Again, back to the 38 special revolver.....it is nearly perfect....but even in 2 in bbl is hard to carry in front pocket due to weight...even the alloy framed guns are heavy. Best super small pistol is Keltec 380ACP....cost about $250 -$300.

Re: first time gun buyer.. need advice
 

Cool. Another reason to love Glocks. =)